Philosophy

[Jigen]

The potential for child abuse and the lack of affection is a very large problem even with our current family system.

Yeah. But for an entire generation?

[Paladin0707077]

Let's assume that everybody agrees to give this "communal raising" that Socratese suggested a try. No fuss. No protests. No nothing. Everybody simply nods their heads and agrees to try. And I mean for as many generations as it takes to either prove or disprove it works, not just the first generation.

The problems I saw in that discussion is thus: it is an inherent instinct for all people to form attatchments to those they are around and interact with often. It is a given: we are social animals, and crave contact with others. Therefore, the seperation of children from parents wouldn't work, as we would simply form new attatchments of equal strength to whom ever raised us (unless, of course, all of those people were cruel and abusive and we knew it: then we'd have even worse problems). They would, in essence, have become our parents all over again.

Then lets say that we take the whole "raising children by adults" factor out. We simply place all children in a large building at birth with other children. They have a computer terminal to use to learn about the world, and at a certain age they are taken out (harsh, I know, but it's hypothetical). It STILL wouldn't work, because they would STILL form attatchments with each other. However, instead of forming attatchments as a "parent/teacher", now they've formed attatchments of "brother/commrade". It is proven that those of equal rank who are thrown together and have nothing else to rely on but themselves will either parish or will form bonds so strong that almost nothing can break them. So, basically, they've just formed an equal (and maybe even a stronger) bond then with the parents and teachers because they've had no choice.

Don't try putting the children by themselves. They will go insane. End of story.

The ONLY real way I could see this sort of situation work is if every child were taken, isolated, and put into a holographic chamber (a la Star Trek) and raised by holograms randomly generated to look like nobody that could possibly be real. Maybe even have the holograms shift every day or so. But, as you may have no doubt guessed, this will definitely have problems of a Psychological nature, which would probably do more harm then good.

The only true solution I see with no worse consiquences: Humanity simply outgrows or "evolves" past the point of forming attatchments.

Edit: You know, this is actually the first time ever that I've posted my opinion on something anywhere. Kinda cool, actually.

[Pwincess]

Out of curiosity, how many people here have actually been in this situation?

[Corsair5]

Not me. The worst crime any of my family has committed is getting a traffic ticket or three.

[Esquire]

Let's see, I've been slammered for curfew violations and aiding rioters. Never spent more than 24 hours in jail for any of those. I did go to drug and alocohol rehab and looking back, I'd have preferred jail. Initially, a 72 hour suicide watch lockdown in a cold, padded room, with the lights always on, a big window high in the door, a kevlar covered foam mattress(the kind studios have on wall) to keep you from trying to eat/choke it, supervised eating/bathroom breaks 4 times a day, for ten mintues each, only allowed to wear underwear, five minute checks, a normal ######-on-Earth. This is all to give your body time to go through withdrawl cycles before they do anything with you.  Like I could actually kill myself, everything gurt, the inner weebing on my toes even hurt, my eyelids hurt. It sucked.  Then after that, detox meds, group therapy at the times when most addicts wanted to score the most, bad food, and mean, violent orderlies who didn't discriminate between mental patients and recovering addies(this rehab was in a loony bin), and didn't mind tossing you around or being rough to make oyu complacent. So take it from one whos painfully been there, kids, and don't do drugs.

[Corsair5]

You were on a suicide watch? Geez..

 

[Esquire]

Well, considering I tried to escape before I even got there, and then threatened to slit my throat if they didn't let me out, as my "interventionist" were still leaving, I'm not suprised in retrospect.

[Raito]

Lovely, guys. Keep it up. I like how everyone is discussing it rationally.

Btw, this question seems to have been forgotten.

Now I'm going to bring up a possible solution to the problem. This was recommended by Socrates, a greek philosopher who was concerned with this family vs law problem, which is labelled as a "Euthyphro" problem, after a priest who prosecuted against his father.

In Plato's Republic, Socrates defends the view that, in an ideal political system, children should be taken away from their parents at birth and raised in communal nurseries. So parents don't know who their children are. And children don't know who their parents are. Advantage: Euthyphro-type dilemmas generated by family loyalty versus the dictates of impersonal justice cannot arise. Can this work, or is there a problem with this solution?

Perhaps you'd like to consider this carefully and comment whether it can work or not.

Actually, this won't work because the world is a mixed bag.

There are orphanages, where the people either treat the children fairly or abuse them. However, just because the children are treated fairly, does not mean that they will not have any religious values, beliefs, stereotypes, etc. imposed onto them. (I'm not trying to say that "bad orphanages" are good, though!)

And, we all also do know that abuse usually leads to irregularities in the person's character, especially when he grows up. This could even be followed by insanity, whether in slight, moderate or extreme amounts. Incidentally, Hitler as a child, was beaten so badly that soon, he was no longer able to feel the beatings. And in the end, "you reap what you sow". The failings of society usually lead to a massive bout of problems for the future generations. (Referenced from http://www.primal-page.com/childabu.htm )

According to the 1st para(in my post, not the site), this is one of the reasons why if I ever have any children, I will not send them to a religious school. Religion is good but I'd rather my children be able to think and select a religion for themselves, rather than impose a religion onto them. I find that a lot of people who fall under the category of "having a religion imposed onto them" will blindly cling to it, even when their actions contradict their beliefs. I believe this is because they neither fully understand the impact of their actions, nor truly comprehend the teachings of their religion.  

[Corsair5]

In a lot of cases, you're right, Yuri. It's not uncommon for a person who was molested as a child by someone he trusts, like a parent, to do the same thing when he gets older. Not in all cases, there are exceptions to everything. But at least sometimes.

[Raito]

To Corsair: Well, that's indeed true, isn't it? There are some people who manage to become enlightened either through reading or thinking and so on. But these people are far and few.

And hmmm... about my family, let's just say that I have a PPO against one of my parents. Too bad that I couldn't apply for both.   Yes, I wish they could have gone to jail instead but hey, 'cos they were my "parents", they got away with it instead. Yeah, I'm pretty sore about that.  

[Pwincess]

I'm sorry to hear about your family situation Yuri    

[Corsair5]

Geez, and I thought not having a girlfriend sucked.

[Jigen]

Or 'doesn't suck', as it were *immature giggle*

[Ignus_Draconus]

*fries Jigen for that remark*