KQIX Project Shut Down

[Brassfire]

He might not do it for free but he might do it for love.

So we'll just set Swift on him about it.  

[Sirus]

Although though I agree that it will it is better to be safe than sorry and remove all QFG references, think about the QFG games themselves. They referenced mostly other Sierra games, but other things which they didn't have rights to such as Monty Python and the Holy Grail(Gargoyle questions), Monkey Island (Gargoyle response), and others which I can't remember...

[Silverbolt]

If these are all true, all you need to fight back is a touching story, a group of protestors that don't have anything better to do and an army of fanboys.

I think I know just the place to get all of them.    

[PHattiE]

Ehhh, have you played QFG or KQ lately? Cheese is rather essential to the early adventure games' ambience. Therefore, cheese is important in a fangame.

YEh, I know what you mean.  I always thought the kings quest games were blubbery and sickenly cheesy....  well, at least KQ7 and KQ5 were.   I don't find any of the QFG games sappy.   But let me define myself:

"O vallarie!!  I have failed you!  Noooo1!! !  I love you so much, how am I to succeed??  O vallerie!  *sob* *SOB* *BOOOHOOHOOOOO*" **

I just want to punch the guy and tell him to be a man.  Jebus.  Daytime soap operas are less cheesy.


** exagerated for emphasis

[Corsair5]

Ehhh, have you played QFG or KQ lately? Cheese is rather essential to the early adventure games' ambience. Therefore, cheese is important in a fangame.

YEh, I know what you mean.  I always thought the kings quest games were blubbery and sickenly cheesy....  well, at least KQ7 and KQ5 were.   I don't find any of the QFG games sappy.   But let me define myself:

"O vallarie!!  I have failed you!  Noooo1!! !  I love you so much, how am I to succeed??  O vallerie!  *sob* *SOB* *BOOOHOOHOOOOO*" **

I just want to punch the guy and tell him to be a man.  Jebus.  Daytime soap operas are less cheesy.


** exagerated for emphasis

Quoted for emphasis.

[koko_99_2001]

Hey guys! Us fans have finally organized! We're getting together a petition. Find the information here:

http://www.kqix.com/forum/index.php?topic=...22641#msg122641

[Corsair5]

That's a good idea. Problem is, not everyone on that site can write english, mark my words. Also, how many signatures do you think you can get? Even if everyone from AGDI, IA, H6, and KQIX were to sign it, at most you could only get 3800 signatures, and I guarantee at least 1000 of those are repeated.

And what's 3800 signatures? It's spit in a bucket. TINY towns have considerably larger populations.

Then you take into account the repititions, the people who don't sign, the people who forget, etc, etc, and you're looking at 2000 signatures. That's nothing. Sell 100,000 copies, and 2000 is going to be a negligible sum. What're we gonna do, boycott VU products?

Leave the dead in the grave.

[koko_99_2001]

Thanks for sounding so optimistic...

[Corsair5]

I'm not a glass half full person. A lot of the time, Optimists are just in denial. And no matter how many ways you slice it, VU won't buy that we got 2000 signatures anyway.

[Storm]

As for the other alleged similarities, the "same basic premise" and interface happens to be something that other games use as well, so VU can't claim to own that. They don't even own the title "Hero's Quest", and Hero6 is a generic title, so we are fairly safe.

And if the time comes that VU mistakenly sends us a C&D, we will deal with it, because our game does not infringe on their copyright, and they can't prove that it does.

Maybe I didn't make point clear. I'm aware that Hero6 is appearantly not violating any copyrights - it seems to basically has the same 'feel' as QFG without any of the series' actual content.
What I meant was, that fan projects such as this can't afford to fight it out in court (if it even gets to that) with a company such as Vivendi. That is why C&D letters are usually quite effective. Sending those letters doesn't even require the copyrights owers to prove there indeed was a violation - it's a unilateral step on their side.

So sure, if Vivendi sends you a C&D letter, you could write them an e-mail and explain exactly why Hero6 isn't an infringment. They might see the error of their ways and leave you alone, but then they might decide to take you to court just for the principle of it. And when you go to court, there's always a chance you would lose (especially when the other side has the better lawyer), and have to shut down, pay expenses and maybe even damages. I don't know about you, but most fan games developers probably wouldn't take such a risk for the sake of their hobby.

Just for the record, IMO Hero6 is pretty 'safe' as fan projects go - I doubt Vivendi would try to close it. Still, I'd be a bit worried if they decided to release a QFG compilation <_<  

[Reish Vedaur]

You could at least wipe your shoe before you stomp on someone, Corsair.  <_<

You know what someone really needs to do?  They need to make a keyboard that takes cartridges, and each cartridge holds all the hardware and software necessary to play a certain game which is also on that cartridge (see Commodore 64/128, Starfox for SNES, etc etc.)  Then you can plug it into a monitor or TV and play away on classic DOS games like Quest for Glory, Space Quest, Death Rally, Stargunner, Airborne Ranger, Pirates!, maybe even the older Elder Scrolls games.  I would definitely buy that.

.. Hmm, you know, I might just pitch this to my friend Coleman.

[PHattiE]

Maybe I didn't make point clear. I'm aware that Hero6 is appearantly not violating any copyrights - it seems to basically has the same 'feel' as QFG without any of the series' actual content.
What I meant was, that fan projects such as this can't afford to fight it out in court (if it even gets to that) with a company such as Vivendi. That is why C&D letters are usually quite effective. Sending those letters doesn't even require the copyrights owers to prove there indeed was a violation - it's a unilateral step on their side.

So sure, if Vivendi sends you a C&D letter, you could write them an e-mail and explain exactly why Hero6 isn't an infringment. They might see the error of their ways and leave you alone, but then they might decide to take you to court just for the principle of it. And when you go to court, there's always a chance you would lose (especially when the other side has the better lawyer), and have to shut down, pay expenses and maybe even damages. I don't know about you, but most fan games developers probably wouldn't take such a risk for the sake of their hobby.

Just for the record, IMO Hero6 is pretty 'safe' as fan projects go - I doubt Vivendi would try to close it. Still, I'd be a bit worried if they decided to release a QFG compilation <_<

Under whose experience are you citing?   You sound like you know what you're talking about.  Maybe you could enlighten me on a few things:

1- How would VU file appropriate court forms when no infringement can be found anywhere?  Would they just put: "we think that hero6.com is violating our copyright, but we aren't sure; nor can we specify where said violations have occurred" ?

2- Failing to prove that another party has not violated copyright infringement means that all legal fees accrued would fall back on the plaintiff.  Given this fact, how would hero6 be financially screwed if VU chose to pursue us?  Hero6 could even get our own legal representative and have VU pay such expenses when they loose disastrously in court.

3- Since hero6 isn't owned by any single person, and since hero6's volunteers exist world wide, how would VU justify the expenses of filing a very costly federal lawsuit?  Don't you think they'd realize that putting $45,000+ into a lawsuit based on unfounded claims toward volunteers who can barely pay their monthly bills is pretty damn stupid?

Look, I understand your concern, but most people are afraid of what they don't know.  Just because a bully wants your lunch money, doesn't mean you give it to them.  

Hero6 has nothing to worry about; anyone who says otherwise is just trying to stir things up.  Design/interface issues within hero6 or other similarities between us and QFG are completely frivolous.  

[Swift]

What PHattiE said.

[Guest_Polagro]

You make a very valid point, Storm.  I think people are reacting harshly to it because having this kind of sword hang over your head is incredibly demotivational for project members.

Though I do not approve of the ways the material was presented to you, I do agree with it.  We are, for the most part, safe from being closed, I believe.  Your concern is appreciated, though.

PHattiE: Suppose you, as somewhat of a project "leader" (and I use this term very loosely, since I am aware that after the Tu..oic?  incident, we agreed not to have another leader.) received a C&D letter.  VU is pursuing legal action against you, and you're looking at thousands of dollars in legal bills to fight it.  Yes, if you win the case, VU may have to pay for your legal bills, but to the best of my knowledge, you only receive reimbursement after the fact. (Meaning you still have to come up with the money in the first place.)  Second, it is going to be incredibly time consuming.  I believe Storm's main point is that C&D letters are generally effective entities unto themselves, and that even Hero6, which is quite safe in my mind, is not as immune as you are saying.

[Swift]

VU needs to be able to come up with the proof first before they can send out c&d letters to anyone. If they have nothing on us, they can't send us a c&d.

And no we're not "reacting harshly towards it" because it's demoralising. We're clearing up misconceptions, because misconceptions can cause unnecessary panic. This issue has been discussed before and we do have a plan. I'll leave it at that.