Hero6 Forums

What should the weapons system be like in Hero7?  What weapons should be used?

Before I could make any suggestions on this kind of topic, I must first ask what will the interface be like for Hero7. As far as I can gather, the graphics sytems for Hero6 has not been settled on yet.  Some of the demos are using MAD and others are using AGS. I think I've mentioned this before, I think that a new graphics engine should be created for this series.  Something supporting 32-bit color would be nice. I would still suggest and recommend keeping with a 2D system or EXTREMELY simple 3D, but this game will lose many potential fans simply because it is still only VGA.

By the time we begin Hero7 the technology supporting 3D graphics may change considerably.  Though the MAD gaming engine is being used for Hero6, we haven't yet decided whether we're still going to use this engine for Hero7.  I hope that this info helps!

With as much work as has been put into plot, why doesn't the Hero6 Team choose to use graphics with more than 256 Colors? MAD is already capable of supporting it, so it would just be a matter of recreating the graphics at a higher resolution with a higher color depth.

Considering the amount of time artists have spent designing and creating the current artwork, that isn't a feasible option at this stage.

I realize it isn't probably reasonable, but I can still dream.... I'm a little frustrated because the information that is posted about the progress and status of Hero6 is rather generic. Even the demos don't say much about the game itself besides that it looks like QG1.

For the combat system, I think it needs to be able to handle multiple enemies at the same time. For example, in QG1, the Goblin Training Grounds is too easy. I find it highly unlikely that the goblins just line up and attack you one by one. They should attack you all at the same time and you have to decide which one to attack first.

Also, we cannot neglect the Parry and Dodge elements. QG4 seemed to neglect the Dodge ability and QG5 ignored Dodge and Parry.

The best thing I could think of would be to zoom in, but still keep a 3D-like look. Also restrict movement to only a small circle, basically for dodging. The enclusion of the Bow would mean that we would have to keep enough range visible to make it as useful as a sword. The mouse could be used to choose which target to attack and the keyboard for swing, dodge, parry, and spells.

Hero6 is progressing VERY well and I believe that you would be seriously impressed with the currect version of the alpha!  My jaw still drops every time I see it.  I realise this isn't much help, however I'm sure that you would rather have the programming team continue working on the alpha rather than making a demo (which halts production for a few good months).

Hero6 is larger and far more complex than any game from the QFG series.  We've created an entirely new plot, in a completely different town, with new people to meet, quests to complete, while encountering new monsters, using new spells spells, and getting rid of the evil which has a hold of the valley.

What more could a hero want?   ^_^  

A new girlfriend? :P

Pizza on demand? :P
A sequel? :D  

I, of course, would much rather see the game get finished sooner than see a new demo out. It's just that the news articles and other updates about the status of the progress say so little that they might as well not even be there.

I guess I don't want to take time away from the final development effort, but I wish I knew more about the development status. I really don't know anything specific about it, which makes it very difficult to postulate about the future Hero7 project. I guess I just want to vent about it more than anything.

As you've probably read in the FAQ we don't know exactly when Hero6 will be finished, however as soon as we reach the Beta phase, I'm going to make an immediate announcement!

At the moment I can?t give more information than that? and the fact that it will certainly be worth the wait  :D  

SEE!!!! You've said NOTHING!!! ARG! You should become a politician...

Yup, the Alpha demo looks awesome!  

ndcent168, if your that desperate to find out about the game, why don't you join the team so that the game gets finished earlier  :P  

Over the last year, I applied... twice.  I'm well versed in most programming languages and literature. I also had quite a bit of time available for about 8 months. :P

Now, however, I am involved in the Linux-NTFS project and it gets all my free time. I just go on the forums here for a break.  

Np.  If you change your mind, you should apply directly to Deamious (our programing admin) on ICQ no# 1-030-284

From the FAQ. That's alot more colors than true VGA offers, so some of the screens might look better than VGA. Unless the FAQ is outdated of course... :)


I'd think most people who are willing to play a 2D adventure game, are willing to tolerate VGA graphics. Particularly if Hero6 turns out to be amazing.

The FAQ is up to date  ;)  

Yes, I didn't notice that in the FAQ when I had posted that--I hadn't read it in that much detail.

I must say that the graphics should be more than just something to "tolorate." Much of the potential audience for Hero6 will be lost simply by them looking at the screen shots. I call your attention to the Final Fantasy series: Although the first games in the series have the most original plot and probably best character classes, it is the least popular because of the graphics. FF X and X-2 are among the most popular, dispite the "borrowed" plot lines from the previous games, only because of the graphics.

And to those of you who will say, "It doesn't matter how many people we get to play this game--this is a volunteer effort," I can only reply by saying that if enough attention is generated to the game upon launch, the development effor for the next installment will go better. We will attract more coders, writers, artists, and possibly even financial backing.

Just thinking, if we're going to have a Paladin class, why not give him a new type of sword instead of that Blue flaming sword? Perhaps one that radiants a white glow? Or one that only shines when there's danger nearby or at night?

What do you mean by this comment?   :blink:

ndcent168, considering the fact that the art work quality was decided quite a long time ago, I highly doubt that the art team will appreciate your comment.  If you don't like hero6 when it's finished, then don't play it.

Also, development time is not a factor of visitor interest... it's a factor of how much free time members on the team have to invest into hero6.

I do not mean anything malicious by this comment. I understand that eveyone has a limited amount of time that they may use for projects, especially volunteer projects.

I was also not recommending that the Hero6 Team redo all the graphics. If the statements you have made about the progress of this project are accurate, it would add years to the development time.

All I was trying to say is that Hero7 should feature the best grahics that we are able to muster.

That is true, although even without snazzy graphics, Hero8(which I assume you are refering to) would develop easier due to the publicity from Hero7, which would develop easier due to the publicity from Hero6. :)

Exactly!

You guys are funny...  ^_^

I'm going to quote you guys on that when we're making hero7 & hero8 and see what your opinions are then  :P  

That's a good idea, Swift. I always thought the Paladin sword would radiate light or white fire. And if it ignites when danger is near, that'd be cool, too. All you'd have to do is that whenever a monster appears, it switches in appearance from a normal sword to the Paladin sword. Not sure how tough that'd be, though.

Cool ideas, Corsair.

Does anyone have anymore suggestions for weapons?

I liked the idea of being able to equip a vairous weapons, but it was poorly done in QG5.  

Agreed. How would you improve on that weapon system in QFG 5 such that it would work nicely in Hero7?

First, (and I know this sounds stupid) I hated that the hero had his weapon out WHENEVER IT WAS EQUIP.

Second, I hate the concept of "Just keep clicking on it." That's really what combat came down to in QG5.

Third, the spells were so clumbsy that even my Wizard became a Fighter. I had the buffest Wizard that could be imagined, and I'm sure many of you did too.

Fourth, Dodge and Parry need to come into play, along with the timing there of.

Fifth, NO JEDI KNIGHTS LIGHT SABER-LIKE COMBAT. Anyone who's played that series knows how poorly the Light Sabers controled. I would rather have a clickfest than that.

Lastly, we need to zoom in, at least a little. Maybe even have a Dynamic Zoom, like that in Super Smash Brothers.
 

Use the nwn's 'engine'?  :unsure:

--> can use a variety of weapons
--> can wear a heap of outfits
--> multiplayer
--> etc  ^_^

- No player skill necessary, also.

For combat types, I think it would be best if we used QFG2's or QFG1's style. Or we could make it so that you controlled the Sword with your mouse, and (FIGHTERS AND PALADINS only) you controlled the shield with WSAD or the arrow keys.

While I'll agree that there ought to be a way to have "auto" combat, the fun combat can add a lot to the game.

As for the mouse/sword idea, I think that would break my fifth rule.

What exactly do you mean by nwn's "engine"? I don't play "Never Winter Nights" if that's what you are refering to.

The combat system of NWN. Which is "Click Target." Rolls dice. It goes on for a little bit, critical hits and stuff, and then you or the evil thingie gets killed.

I liked the NWN combat system. It's a turn-based system that seems to take place in real time, so while it looks similar to the click-fest type of fights, you just clicked once and watch everyone take turns to try and do damage. The only other time where you had to click was to select spells and abilities to use, and those are queued along with everything else. There was some strategy and planning involved and it's rather entertaining to watch too. Also, the "Spacebar' allowed players to pause the game during combat and planned their next few moves safely.


I've never played Super Smash Brothers, so I'm not quite sure what you mean by a Dynamic Zoom. What's that?

Although there obviously must be some random factors in if you hit, damage (from a range), etc. I'd much rather see more active combat.

(Second Post)

The game dynamically zoomd in and out depending on the distance between you and your opponent.

I know I didn't state this originally, but a turn-based, dice based combat system is not acceptable to me. The combat needs to be real-time, and I will smite anyone who says otherwise.

Edit by Swift: Please refrain from making double-posts, especially when the time difference is very short. Use the 'Edit' button when you want to add additional comments. Thank you.

How about as soon as a monster enters the area, your guy pulls out his sword and combat initiates? You can direct your guy to move around in the fight, and when he comes within range with his weapon of choice (Sling, Sword, Dagger, and Spear would all have different ranges) you would be able to slash, dice, slice, thrust, stab, and toss.

Good idea, Corsair. Everyone, keep pouring in new ideas! If the team thinks it's suitable, it could be implemented in the Hero7 combat system.


That's not up to you to decide, actually. The team will use whatever system they think is suitable for H7, and if they decide on a turn-based system for example, you don't get to smite them.

Though all of the QFG series was Real Time. And I think most of us prefer it real time, because Turn Based games are a dime a dozen. Look at Square..

Enix.

Man, I hate the future. Because the future is now..no more good FFs...no Chrono Trigger 2 or Chrono Break..at least there is Hero6...and the other fangames...and, of course.

ADVERTISEMENT!!!

The Chrono Trigger Novel Project (http://www.chronotrigger.info)

Home of the one and only Chrono Trigger novelization...COMING 2005. (Please post on the forum. I'm a mod, isn't that a terrifying thought?)

The only exception was QG 4, as the game had an option for players to allow the computer to fight for their character.

But yeah, maybe more QG players would prefer Real Time to turn-based. I might want to create a poll for that.

Still, nothing's set in stone yet, so if any of you have any suggestions on what combat systems to use and/or how they can be improved, do post them here.

Speaking of stone, any chance of a petrification spell? That'd rock.

How punny.

Yeah, that might be a nice spell to learn.

I love the idea Corsair5. That sounds like that the right direction.

And for those that don't enjoy combat, I'm sure we can work out some kind of Auto mode for them. Or maybe we could have a turn based system IN ADDITION to the real time.

And I can smite who ever I want for what ever reason.

And aren't you still a sheep, Swift?

Since when? :blink:  

I was never a sheep. And no you don't get to smite others. Grow up.

ndcent168, comments like that towards other visitors, moderators or administrators will not be tolerated in the Hero6 forums.

I had been reading some of the old form posts and there was a thread I where someone "cast" polymorph on you and you defended with an amulet... Just a joke. :)

Just as I cannot actually smite anyone here for disagreeing with me. It's not meant to be taken seriously.

And speaking of weapon systems.

To my way of thinking you've got a few basic classes of weapons: Short weapons, Sidearms, Polearms and projectile weapons. Each have their own uses, short weapons are concealable and the best for use when you are right up close to (or grappling) your opponent. Sidearms (such as swords and hand-axes) enjoy better reach and damage over short weapons. For polearms these advantages are increased again, but are slower to use (except for quarter-staffs) and unweildy in close quarters.

The use of projectile weapons is pretty d@mn self-explanatory and would include stones, slings, thrown daggers and Bows.

In addition you could have some extra weapons in there that are magic and that can be defined as multiple categories (such as a dagger that can morph into a sword in combat), and would be really hard to find.

For equiping them, I'd say allow the character to equip 2 weapons at one time. That way a thief could toss daggers at his foes until they get close, and then switch to his short sword.

And, of course, make it so that some weapons can only be used by certain classes. If you find a Fire Sword, but you're only a thief, you can't equip it, so you have to sell it.

When you say Fire Sword, do you refer to the Paladin blade? Because Paladin blades, when not wielded by a Paladin, just are swords. A thief or fighter could wield them, but they wouldn't blaze.

I'm with Corsair on that one. I mean c'mon How does that translate into real life? (ignoring the fact that we're talking about magic swords for just TWO seconds here folks).

I don't care what your job is if you can lift it's weight you can wield that sword, your own skill or natural ability will determine what you can do with it, but outside of that there's no big book o' rules that says 'you're a theif you can't fight with swords' and crap like that.

Great though. Now, do we use and Everquest-style skill set, having a different "Weapon Use" skill for each weapon?

I say that if a Non-Fighter character wishes to use a sword or something, he has to go to the Weapon-Master or Guildmaster and ask for training with Swords or whatever. The guy trains him for like five gold, and then you can use a sword or whatever.

It would be great if we could have trainers for other classes, such as the wizard  ^_^

I sure hope that we implement a thief?s guild in hero7!

What, you aren't putting one in Hero6? Aaah! *Throws self out window*

:P  Never said that

I think my favorite Thieve's Guild was the QFG4 Guild. It was by far the hardest to find.  

QG4's guild also had as many free daggers as you felt like going and getting.

The music was pretty funky also  :winktongue:  

I havn't played it recently enough to remember the music. the traps were cool, too.

Precisely, Jeeves!