Hero6 Forums

Hey guys, I'm Sirus Squire. Huge fan of QFG, and QFG fangames. I myself am planning a fangame (which may or may not happen), and thought of perhaps using the Rune-Magic system. (Most of this info is taken from GURPS:Magic and edited to make sense.) If you have anyquestions, feel free to ask.

Anyways, onto business.




Rune Magic
A rune is a symbol representing a word, sound or concept. Rune-magic is a method of producing "improvised" scrolls and enchanted items using these symbols. A rune-mage is free to learn other forms of magic, if they are available. In that case, the Spell List is used only as a general guideline to the type of spells that can be cast. All spells must be improvised using runes, as described below.

Improvised Spellcasting
An improvised spell consists of two elements. One is the action that is being performed, such as Creating, Moving, Healing, and so on; this is a verb. The other element is the subject of the spell: what is being moved, healed, summoned, etc. This is a noun. Sometimes this is the caster himself, other times it is another person or an object or even mana itself.

Verbs: Create, Control, Heal, Transform, Sense, Communicate, Weaken, Strengthen, Move, Protect and Warn.
Nouns: Earth, Animal, Magic, Body (Man), Mind, Undead, Air, Fire, Water, Plant, Illusion, Light/Dark, Food, and Sound.
These words are the most common meanings; related words may be used in their place in a spell. For instance, the verb Weaken might also be used as Reduce, Damage, Harm, Undo, Rot or Break.

Rune-Lore    Possible Stat?
This skill provides general knowledge of a single rune language (e.g., Futhark Rune-Lore). Each rune language must be learned individually. Though there are only a few runes to learn, each one requires deep understanding of its true meaning, variant forms, relationships with the other runes and the world around it, and so on; thus, the skill is not a trivial one.


The Runes
In addition to the general rune-lore, a mage must learn each rune individually before he can use it. There is a rune for each of the verbs and nouns of improvised spellcasting(see below). A mage who has Rune-Lore for more than one language must learn the runes separately for each language! Knowledge of the Futhark Man-rune does not help at all when dealing with an Indian Man-rune, for instance.

Casting
Casting with Rune-Magic usually involves tracing the rune's pattern. Runes from different languages cannot be used together. Runes can be used to cast spells in several ways, including writing on parchment, tracing in the air, inscribing on an object, or using individual runestones.
Previously written runes require use of the 'Activate Runes' spell. When this spell is successfully cast on a combination of runes, the effect presented in the chosen runes is manifested. This spell works with any rune language known to the caster. The effect will be that chosen by the one who wrote the runes; the user cannot alter it. If the user does not know exactly what the item does, he must accept that risk!
Note that if the runes themselves were flawed, due to a failure on the part of the mage who created them, a successful Activate Runes casting will activate the runes, flaws and all!

The Futhark Runes
These are the 25 runes of the Futhark (Viking) rune-language, each with its appropriate meaning. Alternate translations or meanings of the Futhark runes are shown as well.

(http://www.witchscauldron.net/cauldron/othila.gif)Communication/Separation
(http://www.witchscauldron.net/cauldron/inguz.gif)Healing/Fertility
(http://www.witchscauldron.net/cauldron/teiwaz.gif)Knowledge/Naming
(http://www.witchscauldron.net/cauldron/hagalaz.gif)Break/Weaken/Harm
(http://www.witchscauldron.net/cauldron/uruz.gif)Strengthen/Repair
(http://www.witchscauldron.net/cauldron/ehwaz.gif)Move/Travel
(http://www.witchscauldron.net/cauldron/algiz.gif)Protect/Guard
(http://www.witchscauldron.net/cauldron/eiwaz.gif)Warn
(http://www.witchscauldron.net/cauldron/sowulo.gif)Create
(http://www.witchscauldron.net/cauldron/isa.gif)Control/Bind
(http://www.witchscauldron.net/cauldron/thurisaz.gif)Transform/Gateway
(http://www.witchscauldron.net/cauldron/berkana.gif)Earth
(http://www.witchscauldron.net/cauldron/wunjo.gif)Air
(http://www.witchscauldron.net/cauldron/kenaz.gif)Fire
(http://www.witchscauldron.net/cauldron/laguz.gif)Water
(http://www.witchscauldron.net/cauldron/fehu.gif)Animal/Property
(http://www.witchscauldron.net/cauldron/mannaz.gif)Body/Man/Human
(http://www.witchscauldron.net/cauldron/gebo.gif)Food/Offering
(http://www.witchscauldron.net/cauldron/dagaz.gif)Light (& Darkness)
(http://www.witchscauldron.net/cauldron/nauthiz.gif)Mind
(http://www.witchscauldron.net/cauldron/ansuz.gif)Sound/Signals
(http://www.witchscauldron.net/cauldron/raido.gif)Necromancy/Soul
(http://www.witchscauldron.net/cauldron/jera.gif)Plant
(http://www.witchscauldron.net/cauldron/pertho.gif)Illusion/Mystery
*Magic/Destiny

*Note that the rune used for Magic (Futhark 25, called "Unknowable" or "Destiny") is always represented as an empty space!

this sort of thing often ends in a rather clumsy spellcasting system. I prefer more straightforward methods.

unless you are referring to the initial construction of the spell.

Good system. One problem: The purpose of a fan game is to remain recognisable as a fan game of a particular franchise. Your system, while good, has little or nothing to do with QFG. On the other hand if you had bee fortunate enough to have comealong to Hero6 towards the beginning (a slight difficulty as that was going on half a decade ago now) this could have been implimented as the magic system used by certain NPC's and then perhaps teachable to the player later. Sadly as it stands now it looks unlikely that this will fit the theme of Hero7.

I personally would prefer the original keep-it-simple system to the game.
If anything, I'd agree with Jigen on the point of an NPC implementing that system and the player having an option of learning it as well.  Heck, that's how we got paladin.  You could have it to where anyone could learn it, it becomes a new class, or it just compliments the other classes.
Blasphemy, Rulic!  How dare you say we add another class?
Well, as long as you keep in under control.  All things considered, Pally is like a hybrid of a fighter and a spellcaster.  I don't wanna say Wiz because Wiz spells and Pally spells are different.
I say keep it under control, and what I mean about that is don't make it so much of a totally alien class to make it a huge challenge to incorporate into the story, but at the same time have enough class base material to make the game different for the 'rune mage' or whatever you want to call it.  Its very hard for me to put my opinion on it into words.
Pah!  I ramble again.  Looking at it initially, I say I wouldn't dig it.  But as long as it doesn't change Wizard I think I could get used to it.
Heck....another class may increase the replayability.

I think it potentially has merit; but I have played many games that use the runes (or something similar) to handle the magic system, and it was a little annoying to be honest.  I don't give a [fill in the blank] about how the protaganist casts a "flaming dart", I just want it to be done when I command that it be done!

..And one of the worst types of quest is that that involves collecting:  collect A+B+C and you WIN!  BORING... (This is one reason why I think QG5 was one of the worst of any of the quest series sierra made).  When runes are in the game, it usually involves collecting.  Collect rune a, t and y, and then read a book about how "a, t, y, y, t, a, a" makes a flame dart you can cast later.  BORING.

Anyway, I think if you can figure out how to use runes in a way that does not distract gameplay, it might be pretty cool. (might)



 

At any rate, working with rune magic could make for interesting quests for the wizard character.

I could see a rune magic ritual for end of game closer.

This reminds me of a certain game I played where you typed in the name of your spell and the various combinations created spells. It was rather amusing to put in Corsair and get some huge heavenly lightning bolt. Or was it a pit to the abyss? Hmm..

Anyway. In addition to the issues which my aquaintances have put forward...

Imagine how much extra code this would take. I'm not a game designer. I can't draw or program to save my life. But I figure that a system like this would take a lot longer than cookie-cutter spells. Also, more work can be put into the few spells than the dozens of spells that this system would create.

And with 25 runes, it's not gonna be dozens or hundreds of combinations. Thousands. Millions.

Precisely, 355,271,367,880,050,092,935,562,133,789,063.

Well, I guess I stated it a little low...for scale, the fourth series of digits from right to left? That's Trillions. One Trillion Dollars could probably buy about half of Africa. Got the scale now?

Whoa, Doctor Evil! We get it... :blink:  

Thanks for you replies so far, anyone else?

And, if the spellcasting is limited to only allow one verb and one noun per spell, then there should be 154 combinations maximum(if you use one language, such as Futhark) And some of the spells can be answered with a silly message (such as Communicate Food)



On another note, I just played the demo to BBE's "Destiny: The Lost Soul", which is basically just showing the dialouge, but it explains there magic system, which uses the Futhark runes (the real names, not the nouns and verbs) as spells.

Whoops. That'll teach me to try and find 25 to the twenty-fifth power.

Still. 157 combinations. That's a ton of work.

Besides, whoever heard of a whole number multiplied by 5 that ended in 3?

Well, it was a cheap calculator.

Hero7 - should we ever manage to get around to it! - will most likely be set in a Norse setting. Thus, while it's rather late to use rune magic in Hero6 now, it would be plausible in Hero7 to incorporate it into a few wizard puzzles, or even into the learning of new spells. But we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

One of the more interesting rune magic systems occurs in the game Death Gate, I think, but you only really need to use it on a few occasions to solve some specialized puzzles. The Ultima rune magic system appeals to me somewhat less. Too much fiddling.

A system in which you need to combine elements to create magic SOUNDS like it should be fun, but the combinatorial explosion mentioned above can create huge problems. And if the combinations are limited to a few preset ones to avoid that, we've basically got an ordinary spell system with runes scribbled onto it.

In a pure RPG, a combinatorial magic system would be more plausible; some spells would just have specialized effects. But the Hero games are adventure/RPG hybrids, and this means that every puzzle forces the designers to consider ALL possible solutions. Most RPGs limit your options to "apply the obvious (or non-obvious) skill." Adventure-style gameplay means that effectively having a few hundred spell combinations would make puzzle design incredibly complicated.

Hiya Wells! Glad you could drop by to give some official answers from the Plot department!

I do agree with the comments that it would take adjusting to make it with an adventure/RPG game.

Also realize that I took this from GURPS, which is a tabletop RPG (and I made a few minor edits)

Ghost bumping much?

Because the date on this said 25/10 out in the Topic Titles area.

Sorry, but you lost me.... can you rephrase that?

I think this sounds good; if you had it as a way to cast spells in the game I dont think that many of the verbs would be needed. To cast these spells maybe just put the two runes in order at the ready and use them to automatically cast the spell (select "cast rune or activate rune" and it works like firedart or lightning ball would in the qfg games) This would make it much easier to use and with less verbs that means less spells which means easier to make (if I'm not mistaken).

I'm not overly fond of implementing a runecasting system in a QG world.  there's already a well tried system for casting spells. though I could see using runes in some interesting magic-related sidequests and puzzles.